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farlaArg he's gotten to Eridan apologism on the second one in. Well, that's incentive to finish mine.
Also got another Pokerev review. It complained the pokemon weren't being mind controlled to kill innocent humans - because they're totally fine with a training-is-slavery plot, just so long as it's clear it's not true and none of the pokemon think it's true, they're just being controlled. And there was another fic that did training-is-slavery better, which appears to be one where the pokemon are driven insane so they would kill innocent humans. I replied with no, the point is not beating the one person to blame for making the pokemon do this, and they replied that the pokemon were killing humans and that's bad. See, They just don't seem to do anything that justifys a mass murder. Wow, really? I'll get right on that.
Now it's degraded into stuff like I understand the core concept of what you're saying. It's fundamentally wrong to own another person. But you have not shown me WHY that is but they swear they aren't holding the human and pokemon sides to a different standard, really.
Talking to people about the fic is like having a really heated argument about a black wall, where they keep insisting I'm doing something wrong because either this side of the wall isn't white when obviously I meant it to be, or else I don't realize the other side of the wall is black and why haven't I noticed that yet when it's clearly black and not white? What kind of an idiot am I?
Only sometimes you also get a dumbass complaining I used paint on both sides.
Also I'm not the only one who thinks this way, though. You can check your story on TV Tropes, and see what some other educated readers think of it. You can't except nothing but praise for your stories, because people do want to help you to become a better writer. which does go a long way to explain why this exchange seemed the result of someone unusually dumb.
Which reminded me to check TvTropes and hey look, I'm on Protagonist-centered Morality: * In the IndecisiveDeconstruction fanfic known as ''Pokemon Revolution'', the premise is that a lab-escapee Eevee convinces other pokemon that training is enslavement, then leads a revolution. This is all very well and good until the pokemon army marches into Pewter City, kills the soldiers who try to stop them... ''and doesn't stop there'', slaughtering what is stated to be ''[[MoralEventHorizon several hundred thousand]]'' civilians, who may or may not have even had anything to do with training. [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Consider that in terms of a real-life conflict]]....
They're not even trying any more, though. It's just the pokemon did a bad thing. It was bad. It was very bad. Therefore, protagonist-centered. Come on, TvTropes. Most of the characters are on the same side, it shouldn't be hard to say one character did a thing and then another character said it was right. Like that first chapter the reviewer hated so much! Watch: "In the first chapter, a pokemon kills its trainer who was completely innocent in every way, and the other pokemon says it's fine to murder people because killing humans is okay. This shows Farla is a horrible person and no one should listen when she says a fanfic is bad because mine is awesome and she doesn't know what she's talking about." There you go. Was that so hard?
Anyway, the full text on the recommends page has gotten pretty good again:
''Synopsis'': Eon, an experimental pokemon, decides to wage war against humans. Sides are chosen, blood is shed, and things will never be the same.
* ''Comments'': This fic plays with the idea that pokemon training is akin to slavery and Eon is leading a slave revolt. Though in her case, the revolt is more of a [[KillEmAll genocide]]. Even though the story is grammatically sound and has a good plotline, the execution of the plot was not the greatest. A caveat about the complete version: The complete version does offer up some more thrills and some more characterization along with advancement of the plot but it is nigh unreadable mess.
** YourMileageMayVary. GREATLY. This troper found the fic highly insulting to the very idea of the series itself, and all but wishes it to burn in Hell, and he's usually not that against alternate interpretations of things. Eon is probably the most unlikable Pokemon OC ever, and is exactly half the reason this troper no longer likes OC fics.
** Apparently, the HumansAreBastards aspects are all supposed to played straight, but the author fails at that. The worst the human villains do is act childishly; their main fault seems to be following a centuries-old system that their entire culture tells them is justified. Not exactly deserving of the kangaroo trial and summary execution they receive. Furthermore, you'll probably lose what little sympathy you have left for the Pokemon heroes when they march into Pewter city and proceed to ''brutally slaughter'' every man, woman, and child in sight in a scene more reminiscent of ''BloodMeridian'' than ''{{Pokemon}}''. [[Tropers/PulpoOscuro I]] disrecommend this on the grounds of sheer ProtagonistCenteredMorality.
** [[{{Tropers/M4dh4tter}} This troper]] would like to remove this fic from the page, simply because it was so awful. The human villains were pathetic and unoriginal, the fight scenes focused more on the horror of battles, rather than the actual battles, and Eon was the least likeable, respectable or tolerable OC I have ever read about.
I hope it continues to survive a while, because the telephone aspect of the tropes is just getting to the good stuff. I'm hoping that before it goes, at least one person will be certain Eon says Hitler is awesome in secret trope code. If it's removed before then I will cry forever.
On the other hand apparently someone's arguing it can't really be bad because they like something else I wrote, which is flattering but no, that is terrible reasoning. The discussion is like watching other people argue furiously about the black paint on the wall, with the positions being either it's bare wood or wallpapered. Also, 90% of the page is terrible fics at this point. Cut them all. Please. I will give up waiting for my story to involve Hitler for this.
Also got another Pokerev review. It complained the pokemon weren't being mind controlled to kill innocent humans - because they're totally fine with a training-is-slavery plot, just so long as it's clear it's not true and none of the pokemon think it's true, they're just being controlled. And there was another fic that did training-is-slavery better, which appears to be one where the pokemon are driven insane so they would kill innocent humans. I replied with no, the point is not beating the one person to blame for making the pokemon do this, and they replied that the pokemon were killing humans and that's bad. See, They just don't seem to do anything that justifys a mass murder. Wow, really? I'll get right on that.
Now it's degraded into stuff like I understand the core concept of what you're saying. It's fundamentally wrong to own another person. But you have not shown me WHY that is but they swear they aren't holding the human and pokemon sides to a different standard, really.
Talking to people about the fic is like having a really heated argument about a black wall, where they keep insisting I'm doing something wrong because either this side of the wall isn't white when obviously I meant it to be, or else I don't realize the other side of the wall is black and why haven't I noticed that yet when it's clearly black and not white? What kind of an idiot am I?
Only sometimes you also get a dumbass complaining I used paint on both sides.
Also I'm not the only one who thinks this way, though. You can check your story on TV Tropes, and see what some other educated readers think of it. You can't except nothing but praise for your stories, because people do want to help you to become a better writer. which does go a long way to explain why this exchange seemed the result of someone unusually dumb.
Which reminded me to check TvTropes and hey look, I'm on Protagonist-centered Morality: * In the IndecisiveDeconstruction fanfic known as ''Pokemon Revolution'', the premise is that a lab-escapee Eevee convinces other pokemon that training is enslavement, then leads a revolution. This is all very well and good until the pokemon army marches into Pewter City, kills the soldiers who try to stop them... ''and doesn't stop there'', slaughtering what is stated to be ''[[MoralEventHorizon several hundred thousand]]'' civilians, who may or may not have even had anything to do with training. [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Consider that in terms of a real-life conflict]]....
They're not even trying any more, though. It's just the pokemon did a bad thing. It was bad. It was very bad. Therefore, protagonist-centered. Come on, TvTropes. Most of the characters are on the same side, it shouldn't be hard to say one character did a thing and then another character said it was right. Like that first chapter the reviewer hated so much! Watch: "In the first chapter, a pokemon kills its trainer who was completely innocent in every way, and the other pokemon says it's fine to murder people because killing humans is okay. This shows Farla is a horrible person and no one should listen when she says a fanfic is bad because mine is awesome and she doesn't know what she's talking about." There you go. Was that so hard?
Anyway, the full text on the recommends page has gotten pretty good again:
''Synopsis'': Eon, an experimental pokemon, decides to wage war against humans. Sides are chosen, blood is shed, and things will never be the same.
* ''Comments'': This fic plays with the idea that pokemon training is akin to slavery and Eon is leading a slave revolt. Though in her case, the revolt is more of a [[KillEmAll genocide]]. Even though the story is grammatically sound and has a good plotline, the execution of the plot was not the greatest. A caveat about the complete version: The complete version does offer up some more thrills and some more characterization along with advancement of the plot but it is nigh unreadable mess.
** YourMileageMayVary. GREATLY. This troper found the fic highly insulting to the very idea of the series itself, and all but wishes it to burn in Hell, and he's usually not that against alternate interpretations of things. Eon is probably the most unlikable Pokemon OC ever, and is exactly half the reason this troper no longer likes OC fics.
** Apparently, the HumansAreBastards aspects are all supposed to played straight, but the author fails at that. The worst the human villains do is act childishly; their main fault seems to be following a centuries-old system that their entire culture tells them is justified. Not exactly deserving of the kangaroo trial and summary execution they receive. Furthermore, you'll probably lose what little sympathy you have left for the Pokemon heroes when they march into Pewter city and proceed to ''brutally slaughter'' every man, woman, and child in sight in a scene more reminiscent of ''BloodMeridian'' than ''{{Pokemon}}''. [[Tropers/PulpoOscuro I]] disrecommend this on the grounds of sheer ProtagonistCenteredMorality.
** [[{{Tropers/M4dh4tter}} This troper]] would like to remove this fic from the page, simply because it was so awful. The human villains were pathetic and unoriginal, the fight scenes focused more on the horror of battles, rather than the actual battles, and Eon was the least likeable, respectable or tolerable OC I have ever read about.
I hope it continues to survive a while, because the telephone aspect of the tropes is just getting to the good stuff. I'm hoping that before it goes, at least one person will be certain Eon says Hitler is awesome in secret trope code. If it's removed before then I will cry forever.
On the other hand apparently someone's arguing it can't really be bad because they like something else I wrote, which is flattering but no, that is terrible reasoning. The discussion is like watching other people argue furiously about the black paint on the wall, with the positions being either it's bare wood or wallpapered. Also, 90% of the page is terrible fics at this point. Cut them all. Please. I will give up waiting for my story to involve Hitler for this.
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no subject
Date: 2012-05-04 06:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-04 07:05 pm (UTC)If you want to examine a character, you need to do more than summarize their plot with a bit of what you thought of it. That log you quoted? Look at the other things Eridan says he knows are wrong - trying to nag Kanaya into an ashen relationship when he knows she's interested in Vriska herself, and killing Kanaya. Then consider if his later actions mean a change of opinion or just a change of opportunity, noticing that he only says trying to get her into an ashen relationship was wrong after he nags and nags and it doesn't work and he only says he won't kill Kanaya when trying to convince her to help him get a doomsday device.
no subject
Date: 2012-05-04 07:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-05 12:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-07 12:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-08 09:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-15 12:41 am (UTC)