Fantasy

[farla]

I've been trying to read fantasy novels for the last several months, and keep giving up in disgust about a hundred pages in. (I tended to lump sci-fi and fantasy together, so I hadn't noticed that I haven't been reading it for years.) There's a fantasy story I'd like to write, so I'm trying to read some of it to get an idea of how, and...ugh.

I finally managed to finish the first book of a trilogy, Dirt Eaters, and I've learned a lot.

Most importantly, railroad the fuck out of your protagonist. If you absolutely need him to do something of his own free will, it should be limited to a frantic run from enemies and imminent death, and be described as hazily as possible, followed by fainting. Otherwise, you should assemble a wide cast of characters to move him from place to place. Ideally, he should usually be unconscious during this as well, just so you can make it clear he has a level of personal volition normally found in dead trees. In fact, it's best to think of the protagonist as a dead log being carried about by the other characters.

The correct way of going about a quest is to avoid that quest at all costs. When your sister is begging you to come meet with her because she misses you and is in trouble, and a hallucinatory rat is telling you that instead you should enter the forest of painful death in the other direction because it says so, you should obviously obey the rat. The more bizarre, counterproductive and unexplained the request is, the more you have to do it.

Continuing on that line, curiosity is not a virtue. The main character should be inexperienced with the world, which translates to utterly trusting of strangers and completely uninterested in anything they do. Remember, the people who tell you about things are evil and lying. You can identify the good and trustworthy by their refusal to explain anything whatsoever to you. Exceptions exist for the generic streetwise character who explains how to survive in area X.

The basic plot of the story should involve an idyllic village being burned to the ground, protagonist somehow surviving to be caught by a bunch of shady characters. Shady characters train the protagonist, who has a natural skill in fighting that surpasses actual trained fighters on the first try. Then voices in the protagonist's head tell him to do stuff and he does. Then he finally decides shady characters are shady about two hundred pages after the reader figured it out (this is called suspense building!), uses his leet fighting powars and the voices in his head to escape after attacking the head honcho, then wanders about meeting up with various characters who will move him about in accordance to the voices in his head. Near the end of the story it should finally be explained that the voices in his head didn't want him to do X because it was dangerous because it was, and that despite the seeming random sidequests that served no purpose, he's closer to his main goal.

In conclusion, I'm going to hunt down the author and beat them to death with the book.

Comments

[negrek.livejournal.com]

Heh, this reminds me a bit of an interesting journal I ran across last night. It belongs to a woman who writes all these "rants" (the ones I've read so far haven't been very ranty) about awful fantasy clichés, common mistakes, and things to avoid when writing fantasy. She has them all listed in her memories, and I've found them to be pretty good reading. She also has reviews of various fantasy books and so forth, so if you're looking for something to read that might give you some ideas. The book you described sounds pretty horrible.

[farla.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I read through before, but since I'm not heavily into fantasy and the particular style, most of the advice resulted in more of a ...people do that? o.O reaction (How do you forget the weather?) than anything.

You have a good point about the fantasy book reviews, though. I should check through them.

[wintersheir]

Urgh, that story sounds like someone used one of those fantasy cliché lists as a checklist. I'm with you--I've been reading some utter tripe lately as I've been trying out all those "big names" in mainstream fantasy. (F'r instance, Salvatore = Repressed Homosexual Urges + I rit storee abut mai D&D grup lulz! Drizzt's little livejournal entries between the Parts of the book are somewhere between sad and utterly laughable.)

The big names with shelves all to themselves at the bookstore have been disappointing, but I've enjoyed some less-known authors: I liked Frances Hardinge's "Fly-By-Night"--it's got a canny protagonist who doesn't need sekrit powarz, political intrigue and an author with an absolutely delicious way of describing things. "Perdido Street Station" I think you might enjoy because the setting is so twisted and dystopian and the eventual antagonists are so utterly bizarre.

[farla.livejournal.com]

Urgh, that story sounds like someone used one of those fantasy cliché lists as a checklist.

Oh, of course not. They also included the distopian post-apocalyptic future AND incoherent hippy mother-earth babble checklist.

I've read Perdido Street Station (there's a sequel I've got to read sometime) but the thing is that while I want something readable, I also need something that's usable, which means following a strict young-boy-sets-off-on-quest formula and being written by someone around my level so I can see how they're doing it. Which means most good fantasy and pretty much all innovative fantasy is out.

...I should see if I can torrent Drizzt and Eragon. (I'm reading through the Gor books right now, actually, for the lulz. I think there might be something to the suggestion he was very much in the closet.)

[wintersheir]

Ohhh, I see what you're doing. Yes, you should be able to torrent Eragon for sure, I torrented Eldest last summer when I was feeling particularly bored masochistic bored. Eragon isn't actually that bad, in an enthusiastic-but-clueless fanfictioner kind of way, but Eldest will make you try to chew off your own arms. "The Chronicles of Prydain" is 100% young-boy-on-quest -style, I'm pretty sure, but it came earlier so it's remembered fondly.

Bahaha, I've heard mutterings about Gor. Serious lulz.

[farla.livejournal.com]

Eragon isn't actually that bad, in an enthusiastic-but-clueless fanfictioner kind of way, but Eldest will make you try to chew off your own arms.

Thanks for the warning on that one.

Bahaha, I've heard mutterings about Gor. Serious lulz.

It's actually a bit disappointing. With all the cries about how people objecting were prudes, the sex scenes are - well, there are no sex scenes. In fact, despite the naked slave girls running around, the main character tends to, at most, make passing reference to their legs, say they were unspeakably gorgeous, and then return to discussing in great detail the oiled, rippling chestmuscles of his newest manly companion.

I'm six books in and the author has yet to mention breasts. Unless it's shirtless men crushing each other to their breast.

[wintersheir]

*snerk* This Drizzt book has been similar so far, describing at length the great love the character has for his male companions and the barbarians' muscled chests and golden locks. The first female character to get a speaking part, 12 chapters in, has a slightly confused description of her hair and build, a scene the author hastily ends so he can get back to describing the tall, blond, oiled young barbarian at work in the forge and more Warrior-Bonds Between Men, etc. etc. etc.

I mean, it's not that there's something wrong with that--but quit hiding! I mean, really.

[ember-reignited.livejournal.com]

Chronicles of Prydain! I also have fond memories of those. Yay for animal characters not being completely anthropomorphized! Though that suicidal!horse was pushing it. I've heard of horses pining. I have not heard of them throwing themselves off cliffs.

Seriously, Farla, this is probably your best bet if you want something readable. The only problem is that it's a five-book arc, and you're really not getting the full picture of the hero's quest if you stop after the first one.

[nakitamanomiko.livejournal.com]

It could be worse, I've read a few that are literally giant chains of flashbacks for the first third of the book. The Children of Amarid series isn't bad. One book, something about 'Magic Kingdom For Sale(Sold!)' or something wasn't bad. As far as fantasy goes though, the only ones I've really bought are Terry Pratchett's book, which are more parody then anything. Though they're not bad.

[farla.livejournal.com]

Oh, it could be worse. (Like, it might have started with the protagonist getting attacked by a strange animate vine which left a wiggling thorn that was steadily getting deeper into his flesh and clearly poisonous. And, after a token unconcerned effort at getting it out, he bandages the injury with the thorn still there and forgets about it. I mean just hypothetically.)

[nakitamanomiko.livejournal.com]

Wow. That's just...hypothetically, awful. I don't know if I'd have been able to keep reading that. Unless I wanted to see if he lost whatever he bandaged the poisonous thorn into.

[farla.livejournal.com]

Unless I wanted to see if he lost whatever he bandaged the poisonous thorn into.

Then you'll enjoy Wizard's First Rule (http://www.amazon.com/Wizards-First-Rule-Sword-Truth/dp/0812548051)! Thill as young Richards is bored by everything, even imminent death!

Personally, I hope he dies horribly, but I had to stop reading a mere few dozen pages in, well before there's any resolution on the minor issue bandaging a moving poisoned thorn into his palm and forgetting around it.

[nakitamanomiko.livejournal.com]

I took the easy way out and read the personal reviews. Nothing about a hand falling off, sadly, though apparently someone tortures him.

I almost got bored and went away halfway through the official review of the book. I'll stick to Pratchett. At least they keep me awake.

[(Anonymous)]

I hated that book so much. Shows what I get for taking book recs from people I don't know well. <_< (I could have bought another Discworld book with that money!)

[negrek.livejournal.com]

...and that was me.

[farla.livejournal.com]

You? You recommended that brainkilling book to poor anonymous? I must defriend you immediately and shun you forever.

Isn't it interesting how quickly the internet creates its own near dialect where phrases are usually immediately understood in proper context, despite the wealth of other possible interpretations?

[ember-reignited.livejournal.com]

Most importantly, railroad the fuck out of your protagonist. If you absolutely need him to do something of his own free will, it should be limited to a frantic run from enemies and imminent death, and be described as hazily as possible, followed by fainting. Otherwise, you should assemble a wide cast of characters to move him from place to place. Ideally, he should usually be unconscious during this as well, just so you can make it clear he has a level of personal volition normally found in dead trees. In fact, it's best to think of the protagonist as a dead log being carried about by the other characters.

Really? They all do this? And here I was thinking that Eragon was just that special. But this technique is especially ironic in the Bricks because Paolini seems to think that he's writing about free will and choosing your own path. Speaking of the Bricks, you really want to read them? Excellent. I love it when people on my f-list do that. It never fails to bring the funny.

And what is this new writing project you're referring to? If you're looking for a template, I can't imagine it's something you're taking particularly seriously. Is it a sort of burlesque?

[farla.livejournal.com]

Really? They all do this?

Apparently. I've been reading scifi and fantasy-written-in-nonfantasy-style (ie, readable) for the past few years, where this kind of thing is nigh unheard of, but from what I can tell, most straight-up sword and sorcery stuff involves getting from point a to b by taking a detour through points gohjkmnbx and p, generally with the help of a cryptic warning and a bunch of good guys who can't explain things to save their lives.

The new project is more an idea I've been kicking around for some months. I need a template mainly because I absolutely don't read fantasy - I have no idea how to manage any sort of longer quest through a wide area, so I need to see how it's usually done. Even done badly works, because it's easier to improve on something I know than to try to make it up entirely. (There are also a bunch of major hurdles to cover in the story concept - the protagonist is young, not particularly skilled, and inexperienced, so I want ideas on how he could get around despite those handicaps.)

[(Anonymous)]

The Hobbit...Tolkien is evil...