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farlaSo someone's incompetently bitching at me over on the forum, but nothing really impressive.
And again with the interesting ideas watch.
Someone has one of those fics where the cool/special character shows up, and they meet an ordinary person and interact. We need a name for the genre.
In this case, it's Mewtwo, and the whole story is just missed opportunity after missed opportunity.
It starts off with a trainer finding a somewhat out of it Mewtwo. He pulls out his pokedex.
Now, in canon, pokedexes only have data on known pokemon, which we've known ever since the movie when Ash tried to get a read on Mew. The pokedex does recognize Mewtwo, though, which means someone's released the information about him.
Cool!
Now, the only person who initially knows about Mewtwo is Giovanni, and possibly some of his scientists. Given Pokemon's rather mutable canon, though, it'd be perfectly possible to assume that other officials have found out about Mewtwo. So what would they release? Well, maybe they'd just tell the truth, but there's a great chance here to subvert our standard expectations that the pokedex is some sort of automatic information-maker that's always totally right, and set up some delicious plotty drama!
Oh, you agree, author? You're going to have it be wrong? Yay! There's all kinds of awesome ways this could work out, depending on who leaked the information, and what their goals were. If Giovanni's behind it, I figure he'd want it to be something that'd lead to him getting Mewtwo back - perhaps a short blurb along the lines of "DANGER: DO NOT ENGAGE, REPORT ANY SIGHTINGS." Or maybe he'd want trainers to try to take Mewtwo out - either stealing the resulting caught Mewtwo, or on the assumption Mewtwo will annihilate them, keeping its existence to the world at large secret while alerting whatever monitoring system Team Rocket has. Or maybe the pokedex itself is wired to automatically report and the displayed message would be something along the lines of "MEWTWO: This powerful pokemon that's a boon to any team is friendly and easygoing. The best way to convince it to join your team is to tell it humans are superior and then poke it a few times. If it does not respond immediately, start discussing how inferior clones are."
Then there's just trying to sabotage any of Mewtwo's interactions with humans - say, inform any trainers that Mewtwo are highly intelligent manipulative liars, prone to mood swings that end in brutal painful death, evil sociopaths, etc. Something that will cast what we can assume Mewtwo's initial observable characteristics in the most negative light possible. Ie, if he starts giving a sob story about Giovanni being Team Rocket's boss, well, he's a highly intelligent liar trying to manipulate you into thwarting a good upstanding gym leader, either because he's just evil and hates good people or possibly because Good Citizen Giovanni is trying to stop him from murdering anyone else. Bonus points if Giovanni carries out a good enough disinformation campaign that Mewtwo starts assuming all the gym leaders and Elite Four are part of Giovanni's organization, because not only will he seem even less plausible, but now the odds are that any trainer he does convince will hit one of the innocent good gym leaders, thus confirming Mewtwo was just on a campaign to take out innocent good gym leaders, like Giovanni who's obviously extra good if Mewtwo is focusing so much effort on him.
If a shadowy cabal is in charge, our options are even more varied. What information they give will also give us clues about how good/evil they are and what their overall motives are. So whatever the information is, it'll set up all kinds of speculation and interest, as we try to figure out what their motives are from the empty shape formed around all the stuff they're not saying and that conflicts with what we know.
...oh, nevermind, it's just the pokedex data from the games.
You know, the data from a canon where Mewtwo is a completely different character and major events never happened? The data that, while totally inaccurate for movie!Mewtwo, is totally inaccurate in a way that is immediately disprovable, and, besides being a bit irritating to Mewtwo, doesn't seem to communicate anything to a trainer beyond just that he's a strong pokemon who's a good fighter? The data which it makes no sense for anyone to give out?
Yeah, that data.
Okay, that's just one letdown.
Then Mewtwo decides to tell his life story. It's adjusted mildly as a result of author fangirling (Giovanni brainwashed him, he didn't mean to kill any of the scientists) but there's no in-story suggestion he's telling anything but the truth. He goes into far more detail than he needs in the process, including many things it is not a good idea to tell a stranger.
So there's no suggestion Mewtwo isn't telling the whole truth to this trainer, setting up conflict as the trainer tries to figure out how much of what this strange pokemon says is true, or if any of it even is, and what bits might be missing.
At the same time, all those important bits that should cause conflict (say, killing people) are instantly accepted by the trainer as totally okay. No conflict there.
And Mewtwo accepts the whole totally okay thing from the trainer, instead of having the slightest degree of suspicious. Because, you know, his past interactions with humans have not involved being lied to or manipulated by them at all!
There is a really good story here. It's just not the one they're writing.
EDIT: Just got a review reply.
For the Pokedex stuff, it was never identified properly in its appearances, therefore, no true entry exists in the anime-verse. Thus, I put together the Pokedex entries of the games that were out at the time of the second Mewtwo movie's release, Gold, Silver, and Crystal.
So the idea of inventing something never even occurred to them, let alone the meaning behind a pokedex entry. In fact, despite it being brought up in that very review, they don't realize THERE IS NO POKEDEX ENTRY ON MEWTWO AT ALL IN THE ANIME VERSE. Not "they didn't mention it", it DOES NOT EXIST.
They go on to say that the story is meant to be a one-shot, because apparently one character telling the other his background is considered enough to qualify for a story these days.
And again with the interesting ideas watch.
Someone has one of those fics where the cool/special character shows up, and they meet an ordinary person and interact. We need a name for the genre.
In this case, it's Mewtwo, and the whole story is just missed opportunity after missed opportunity.
It starts off with a trainer finding a somewhat out of it Mewtwo. He pulls out his pokedex.
Now, in canon, pokedexes only have data on known pokemon, which we've known ever since the movie when Ash tried to get a read on Mew. The pokedex does recognize Mewtwo, though, which means someone's released the information about him.
Cool!
Now, the only person who initially knows about Mewtwo is Giovanni, and possibly some of his scientists. Given Pokemon's rather mutable canon, though, it'd be perfectly possible to assume that other officials have found out about Mewtwo. So what would they release? Well, maybe they'd just tell the truth, but there's a great chance here to subvert our standard expectations that the pokedex is some sort of automatic information-maker that's always totally right, and set up some delicious plotty drama!
Oh, you agree, author? You're going to have it be wrong? Yay! There's all kinds of awesome ways this could work out, depending on who leaked the information, and what their goals were. If Giovanni's behind it, I figure he'd want it to be something that'd lead to him getting Mewtwo back - perhaps a short blurb along the lines of "DANGER: DO NOT ENGAGE, REPORT ANY SIGHTINGS." Or maybe he'd want trainers to try to take Mewtwo out - either stealing the resulting caught Mewtwo, or on the assumption Mewtwo will annihilate them, keeping its existence to the world at large secret while alerting whatever monitoring system Team Rocket has. Or maybe the pokedex itself is wired to automatically report and the displayed message would be something along the lines of "MEWTWO: This powerful pokemon that's a boon to any team is friendly and easygoing. The best way to convince it to join your team is to tell it humans are superior and then poke it a few times. If it does not respond immediately, start discussing how inferior clones are."
Then there's just trying to sabotage any of Mewtwo's interactions with humans - say, inform any trainers that Mewtwo are highly intelligent manipulative liars, prone to mood swings that end in brutal painful death, evil sociopaths, etc. Something that will cast what we can assume Mewtwo's initial observable characteristics in the most negative light possible. Ie, if he starts giving a sob story about Giovanni being Team Rocket's boss, well, he's a highly intelligent liar trying to manipulate you into thwarting a good upstanding gym leader, either because he's just evil and hates good people or possibly because Good Citizen Giovanni is trying to stop him from murdering anyone else. Bonus points if Giovanni carries out a good enough disinformation campaign that Mewtwo starts assuming all the gym leaders and Elite Four are part of Giovanni's organization, because not only will he seem even less plausible, but now the odds are that any trainer he does convince will hit one of the innocent good gym leaders, thus confirming Mewtwo was just on a campaign to take out innocent good gym leaders, like Giovanni who's obviously extra good if Mewtwo is focusing so much effort on him.
If a shadowy cabal is in charge, our options are even more varied. What information they give will also give us clues about how good/evil they are and what their overall motives are. So whatever the information is, it'll set up all kinds of speculation and interest, as we try to figure out what their motives are from the empty shape formed around all the stuff they're not saying and that conflicts with what we know.
...oh, nevermind, it's just the pokedex data from the games.
You know, the data from a canon where Mewtwo is a completely different character and major events never happened? The data that, while totally inaccurate for movie!Mewtwo, is totally inaccurate in a way that is immediately disprovable, and, besides being a bit irritating to Mewtwo, doesn't seem to communicate anything to a trainer beyond just that he's a strong pokemon who's a good fighter? The data which it makes no sense for anyone to give out?
Yeah, that data.
Okay, that's just one letdown.
Then Mewtwo decides to tell his life story. It's adjusted mildly as a result of author fangirling (Giovanni brainwashed him, he didn't mean to kill any of the scientists) but there's no in-story suggestion he's telling anything but the truth. He goes into far more detail than he needs in the process, including many things it is not a good idea to tell a stranger.
So there's no suggestion Mewtwo isn't telling the whole truth to this trainer, setting up conflict as the trainer tries to figure out how much of what this strange pokemon says is true, or if any of it even is, and what bits might be missing.
At the same time, all those important bits that should cause conflict (say, killing people) are instantly accepted by the trainer as totally okay. No conflict there.
And Mewtwo accepts the whole totally okay thing from the trainer, instead of having the slightest degree of suspicious. Because, you know, his past interactions with humans have not involved being lied to or manipulated by them at all!
There is a really good story here. It's just not the one they're writing.
EDIT: Just got a review reply.
For the Pokedex stuff, it was never identified properly in its appearances, therefore, no true entry exists in the anime-verse. Thus, I put together the Pokedex entries of the games that were out at the time of the second Mewtwo movie's release, Gold, Silver, and Crystal.
So the idea of inventing something never even occurred to them, let alone the meaning behind a pokedex entry. In fact, despite it being brought up in that very review, they don't realize THERE IS NO POKEDEX ENTRY ON MEWTWO AT ALL IN THE ANIME VERSE. Not "they didn't mention it", it DOES NOT EXIST.
They go on to say that the story is meant to be a one-shot, because apparently one character telling the other his background is considered enough to qualify for a story these days.
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no subject
Date: 2008-12-13 09:46 pm (UTC)The original version of the story you reviewed, by the way, is even more epic in the nonsensical department. It involved one-liner battles (as in, an incredible match for the title of Pokemon Champion of the World was literally less than a chapter long and lacked much in the way of description) and a main character being a powerful psychic whose starter Pokemon was a baby Mew.
As for Mewtwo, I'm almost tempted to write the story you've just described because that's seriously awesome. I mean, just once, I'd like for sit down and read someone writing Giovanni as, in public, a good, upstanding citizen who gives back to his community. After all, it is somewhat canon. [motions to the fact that he owned -- and, if I recall correctly, was known to own -- the park in "Island of the Giant Pokemon"] And, of course, I'd like for one life story to actually be a crock of bull. I mean, hasn't anyone ever heard of the term "unreliable narrator"?
Will have to read the actual story later when I'm ready to go through lines and lines of dialogue. Oh, fandom. Please someday realize that 90% of a story should not be just a bunch of people talking.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-14 03:09 am (UTC)I...all I can picture is someone telling people to stop spelling pokemon names correctly.
The original version of the story you reviewed, by the way, is even more epic in the nonsensical department
You are lying to me as part of a cruel prank.
I'm almost tempted to write the story you've just described because that's seriously awesome
Do it!
And yeah - Giovanni is, in anime canon, a completely upstanding citizen with many legitimate businesses and absolutely no connection with that sad unpleasantness of poaching last week. Depending on your view, he might get as far as kind of unproven mob-boss suspicious, but given he's still a gym leader, it'd have to be on the far edge of unproven.
And, of course, I'd like for one life story to actually be a crock of bull. I mean, hasn't anyone ever heard of the term "unreliable narrator"?
And the worst part? Given the nature of pokemon canon, you could, if you wanted, actually have Mewtwo spin a not entirely accurate backstory in such a way that readers would just assume it was your version, instead of realizing he was lying. So you have two wonderful choices before you with that, dramatic irony or subverting your readers' trust, either of which is ten thousand times more interesting than just telling us his movie backstory again. (After reading enough ridiculous stories, everything I think about turns to (ab)using my fellow readers' sheeplike ability to take everything at face value, no matter how absurd. This is probably not a good habit to get into as a writer.)
no subject
Date: 2008-12-14 04:12 am (UTC)No, it's even better.
wat else... o ya! gramar: you've got a lot of mispellings and frankly rong wrds.
You are lying to me as part of a cruel prank.
Incidentally, I didn't get in my daily quota of kicking puppies today, so...
I'll tempt you with a link to the story! =D (Also, yeah, sorry. I ended up quoting you as part of my review. Probably taken out of context and outside of your original intention. I may or may not have been drunk in order to get that far in the story.)
Do it!
....
And so, my longer stories take yet another hiatus.
Also, yeah, I got that sort of feeling, but other than "Island of the Giant Pokemon," I really couldn't think of instances where it's obvious that that's his standing in the anime. I suppose the fact that he's got a very nice gym in the middle of a rather large city could be one thing, but I can't recall. Did anyone know who the gym leader of that nice building was, or did they just see him as a random wealthy but nameless figure?
Given the nature of pokemon canon, you could, if you wanted, actually have Mewtwo spin a not entirely accurate backstory in such a way that readers would just assume it was your version, instead of realizing he was lying.
This is very (but unfortunately) true. Right now, I'm incredibly entertained by the kinds of reviews this can potentially get, and I think you know how much I like screwing with the reader.
Off to play with plot bunnies! Thank you, my dear, for distracting me thoroughly from schoolwork. XD
no subject
Date: 2008-12-14 05:32 pm (UTC)I really couldn't think of instances where it's obvious that that's his standing in the anime.
I don't think it's come up much, but then, he hasn't come up that much. Circumstantial evidence suggests he's involved in a wide range of businesses, since he also owned a blimp company and in game canon controls the game corner at Celadon. And blimps/animatronic theme park/slot machines/gym suggests a relatively varied portfolio, since there's little connection between any of the ones we know about. (And I'm not sure, but I think he also owned the SS Anne) There's also just that he gets away with having an unidentified uber pokemon (in armor) beating all challengers, suggesting he's got such high standing no one comes to check if he's cheating by boosting a regular pokemon's attacks with technology or something. And when Jesse and James take over the gym, not only is Ash shocked at the idea, but he still has his gym and power after that, as if no one believed he was connected to Team Rocket even after a bunch of Team Rocket members temporarily run his gym while saying loudly and repeatedly they're working for him.
Did anyone know who the gym leader of that nice building was, or did they just see him as a random wealthy but nameless figure?
I think that's interference from game canon, where the gym leader was some big secret that even the helper guy who hung out there didn't know who he was...even though his name was written on the pair of statues at the entrance. And even though he had like nine billion trainers in that gym with him, at least some of which must have met him at some point. And even though unless he left before everyone else in the town was born, they should have remembered who was in charge of the gym even if it hadn't been open for a while.
So in anime canon, as I remember, they do the same dodging of the issue, where people kind of don't seem to know, but at the same time they do. I could kinda-sorta see him keeping the gym leader thing quiet, given his whole "brutally pwn challengers with a super pokemon" thing, so his main persona might be respected businessman and the gym leader thing something he does without making a big deal of it, so people know he's the gym leader but not really about any details.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-14 08:17 pm (UTC)Also, thanks for the info about Giovanni.