Playing with a mary sue test
Mar. 29th, 2010 06:19 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
farlaA webcomic thread has been chatting about the exact traits of sues, and I was bored.
1. Is or does your character's name...
Involve a noun or verb not usually used as a name, spelled normally or not?
Chosen specifically because you thought it had a meaning appropriate for your character?
Going to be putting this on all of them, even though I'm pretty sure it's meant for times when that was the only criteria and the result was one of those Meaningful Names.
22. Is your character some other kind of cool humanoid with powers/abilities beyond human ability?
Is he ever!
24. Does your character become a genetically, scientifically, cybernetically, or magically altered/enhanced being, possibly with new powers?
Included because I suspect the testmaker simply wasn't thinking of characters that start off as one.
39. How many animal companions does your character keep? (Ordinary, non-magical pets like cats and dogs do not count.)
This, though, I'm not counting, as in-universe, pokemon ownership is even less noteworthy than a character having several regular animals.
53. Does your character have a telepathic/empathic connection or the ability to communicate with any kind of animal?
Counting this, although it probably should get the same bit about being an unusual ability, and it's probably referring to animal friends, not simply communicating.
56. Does your character posess power that can take out entire cities/legions of soldiers/general all-around-evil?
Hell yes.
59. Not counting his or her first language, how many languages does your character fluently speak? (One)
60. Does your character succeed at virtually everything he/she tries?
See #56.
64. Is anyone envious of your character's talents and/or abilities?
1. Because he/she constantly beats them at their own game/games?
As it happens, yes.
77. On the subject of your character and his/her family...
1. Was your character orphaned, abandoned, kicked out, or at least raised by a family/person that was not his/her own family?
Not counting this as they're considered his family and, as they're all clones, functionally are.
92. If people don't like your character, do you believe it's just because they don't "get" him or her?
For this one, yep. Although it's really more a "don't get the story", and not for people who dislike Deus based on his behavior.
Including both the original and fan section. Currently he's at a mere 27, which just says "suelike tendencies", so he's well below where, say, actual Mewtwo (with his angst and only one of his kind) scores. And an ungodly powerful genetically engineered monster should never be scoring that low.
Part 2 - Original Fiction Characters
Only answer these questions if your character is for an original fiction. (For a new character you plan to add to an established original fiction universe, see the Fan-Character Specific Area.)
Not an original fiction character? Skip this section.
You can't tell me what to do! IT'S MY CHARACTER AND I'LL GET THEM A HIGH SCORE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
…
Okay so nothing fits. (It's amazing how many questions you get out of just by having a neuter character.)
Part 3 - Fan Characters & Newcomers
Only answer these questions if you are taking this test for a fan character (fiction or RPG) OR for a new character whom you plan to add to an established original series (consider the original cast as canon and the newcomer as a fan character).
Not a fan character or newcomer? Skip this section.
1. Is your character's name a variation, pun, or synonym of a canon character's name?
2. Do your introduce and/or describe your character on the first page? (Ignore if this is an RPG character.)
2. On the first paragraph?
It's stuff like this that leads to the idea that anti-marysue means hating OCs in general. But honestly, this only bumps it up by three points - it's not really in proportion to a lot of other things, but it amounts to making it so fanfic OCs score a bit higher by nature, which fits with fanfic OCs being a bit more likely to be sues by nature. And in any fandom where the story is going to have a lot of focus on the canon cast this is a huge warning sign that likely deserves even more points.
From here on, there are a number of questions about being like a canon character, but it's said that genetic resemblance doesn't count.
16. Is your character closely related to a canon character?
4. The twin/clone?
31. Is the story told all or mostly from your character's point of view?
Same issues, both pro and con, as #2)
We've made it up to 37, which is just past the point the test advises you start the character over and try again.
Part 5 - De-Suifiers
1. Do you ever poke fun at your character's faults/weaknesses and/or use them as plot devices?
The story's basically about this sort of thing.
2. Has your character ever been honestly selfish, petty, lazy, shallow, or pointlessly cruel?
He's quite self-centered. Not sure how severe it has to be before it should count here, though.
13. Does your character ever admit to being wrong, even if he/she doesn't really mean it?
This says a lot about the average sue, since in published fiction, the sues tend toward always admitting they were wrong mid-book. I'd consider "actually being wrong and refusing to admit it" a much bigger issue, as well as giving a bonus to other characters that, rather than stand on principle, say they were wrong without actually believing a word of it.
But that has nothing to do with Deus.
15. If your character is a non-human, does he/she react in very non-human ways or in ways more appropriate to his/her species?
This is only worth a single point. Makes sense, though, since it's subjective and if it's a sue, you're going to think the character's depiction is various flavors of awesome.
16. If your character is vampire, is he/she...
3. Unable to have sex?
Can't technically pick this one due to him not being a vampire, but it suggests a better question would be stuff about the character not getting into any relationships, especially after half the test was asking about them.
17. Do you view your characters more like tools than friends/children?
I think I view my tools a bit better than characters, come to think of it. I'd never kill a tool.
A pathetic 33, scoring midway at "regular sue". Deus, you suck! What sort of world destroying offense to god are you if you can't even break a sue test?
I think this kind of thing pretty much cements that you can't get an actual high score simply for being powerful, there have to be multiple things going on.
Ran Winter Moon through for lulz. Exalted's character generation process pretty much ripped off half the questions. I mean, we're dealing with a setting that's based on the idea that "your character is undeservingly hated for their super awesome powers even though they're the only ones who can save the world". Consider: she's part of a canon group that renames their members, generally involving nature/darkness/weaponry, plus she's a wanted criminal under her actual name. So does she score for that, or would she score if she wasn't doing that? Similarly, by canon, she's supposed to have at least one feature that is her unique identifier and commonly lunars have something white or silver about them. And does she count as "unusually skilled" since she is for a mortal, or not? And "Does your character have a particularly attractive scent that doesn't come from their perfume or shampoo? " Lunars have a charm for that. Seriously. She also speaks multiple languages for very little reason, simply because Creation has a dozen so making sure the party can communicate is actually problematic.
She gets a 44 on a quick runthrough, although I was pretty much ignoring all the "is she attractive" questions, which might be able to bump her up, because I don't really care, and there are a couple that might be added if you interpret some questions extremely liberally (like, lunars have access to the only fast healing in the game, so that's "unusual healing ability".)
Also, just posted her profile over on oc_analysis.
1. Is or does your character's name...
Involve a noun or verb not usually used as a name, spelled normally or not?
Chosen specifically because you thought it had a meaning appropriate for your character?
Going to be putting this on all of them, even though I'm pretty sure it's meant for times when that was the only criteria and the result was one of those Meaningful Names.
22. Is your character some other kind of cool humanoid with powers/abilities beyond human ability?
Is he ever!
24. Does your character become a genetically, scientifically, cybernetically, or magically altered/enhanced being, possibly with new powers?
Included because I suspect the testmaker simply wasn't thinking of characters that start off as one.
39. How many animal companions does your character keep? (Ordinary, non-magical pets like cats and dogs do not count.)
This, though, I'm not counting, as in-universe, pokemon ownership is even less noteworthy than a character having several regular animals.
53. Does your character have a telepathic/empathic connection or the ability to communicate with any kind of animal?
Counting this, although it probably should get the same bit about being an unusual ability, and it's probably referring to animal friends, not simply communicating.
56. Does your character posess power that can take out entire cities/legions of soldiers/general all-around-evil?
Hell yes.
59. Not counting his or her first language, how many languages does your character fluently speak? (One)
60. Does your character succeed at virtually everything he/she tries?
See #56.
64. Is anyone envious of your character's talents and/or abilities?
1. Because he/she constantly beats them at their own game/games?
As it happens, yes.
77. On the subject of your character and his/her family...
1. Was your character orphaned, abandoned, kicked out, or at least raised by a family/person that was not his/her own family?
Not counting this as they're considered his family and, as they're all clones, functionally are.
92. If people don't like your character, do you believe it's just because they don't "get" him or her?
For this one, yep. Although it's really more a "don't get the story", and not for people who dislike Deus based on his behavior.
Including both the original and fan section. Currently he's at a mere 27, which just says "suelike tendencies", so he's well below where, say, actual Mewtwo (with his angst and only one of his kind) scores. And an ungodly powerful genetically engineered monster should never be scoring that low.
Part 2 - Original Fiction Characters
Only answer these questions if your character is for an original fiction. (For a new character you plan to add to an established original fiction universe, see the Fan-Character Specific Area.)
Not an original fiction character? Skip this section.
You can't tell me what to do! IT'S MY CHARACTER AND I'LL GET THEM A HIGH SCORE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
…
Okay so nothing fits. (It's amazing how many questions you get out of just by having a neuter character.)
Part 3 - Fan Characters & Newcomers
Only answer these questions if you are taking this test for a fan character (fiction or RPG) OR for a new character whom you plan to add to an established original series (consider the original cast as canon and the newcomer as a fan character).
Not a fan character or newcomer? Skip this section.
1. Is your character's name a variation, pun, or synonym of a canon character's name?
2. Do your introduce and/or describe your character on the first page? (Ignore if this is an RPG character.)
2. On the first paragraph?
It's stuff like this that leads to the idea that anti-marysue means hating OCs in general. But honestly, this only bumps it up by three points - it's not really in proportion to a lot of other things, but it amounts to making it so fanfic OCs score a bit higher by nature, which fits with fanfic OCs being a bit more likely to be sues by nature. And in any fandom where the story is going to have a lot of focus on the canon cast this is a huge warning sign that likely deserves even more points.
From here on, there are a number of questions about being like a canon character, but it's said that genetic resemblance doesn't count.
16. Is your character closely related to a canon character?
4. The twin/clone?
31. Is the story told all or mostly from your character's point of view?
Same issues, both pro and con, as #2)
We've made it up to 37, which is just past the point the test advises you start the character over and try again.
Part 5 - De-Suifiers
1. Do you ever poke fun at your character's faults/weaknesses and/or use them as plot devices?
The story's basically about this sort of thing.
2. Has your character ever been honestly selfish, petty, lazy, shallow, or pointlessly cruel?
He's quite self-centered. Not sure how severe it has to be before it should count here, though.
13. Does your character ever admit to being wrong, even if he/she doesn't really mean it?
This says a lot about the average sue, since in published fiction, the sues tend toward always admitting they were wrong mid-book. I'd consider "actually being wrong and refusing to admit it" a much bigger issue, as well as giving a bonus to other characters that, rather than stand on principle, say they were wrong without actually believing a word of it.
But that has nothing to do with Deus.
15. If your character is a non-human, does he/she react in very non-human ways or in ways more appropriate to his/her species?
This is only worth a single point. Makes sense, though, since it's subjective and if it's a sue, you're going to think the character's depiction is various flavors of awesome.
16. If your character is vampire, is he/she...
3. Unable to have sex?
Can't technically pick this one due to him not being a vampire, but it suggests a better question would be stuff about the character not getting into any relationships, especially after half the test was asking about them.
17. Do you view your characters more like tools than friends/children?
I think I view my tools a bit better than characters, come to think of it. I'd never kill a tool.
A pathetic 33, scoring midway at "regular sue". Deus, you suck! What sort of world destroying offense to god are you if you can't even break a sue test?
I think this kind of thing pretty much cements that you can't get an actual high score simply for being powerful, there have to be multiple things going on.
Ran Winter Moon through for lulz. Exalted's character generation process pretty much ripped off half the questions. I mean, we're dealing with a setting that's based on the idea that "your character is undeservingly hated for their super awesome powers even though they're the only ones who can save the world". Consider: she's part of a canon group that renames their members, generally involving nature/darkness/weaponry, plus she's a wanted criminal under her actual name. So does she score for that, or would she score if she wasn't doing that? Similarly, by canon, she's supposed to have at least one feature that is her unique identifier and commonly lunars have something white or silver about them. And does she count as "unusually skilled" since she is for a mortal, or not? And "Does your character have a particularly attractive scent that doesn't come from their perfume or shampoo? " Lunars have a charm for that. Seriously. She also speaks multiple languages for very little reason, simply because Creation has a dozen so making sure the party can communicate is actually problematic.
She gets a 44 on a quick runthrough, although I was pretty much ignoring all the "is she attractive" questions, which might be able to bump her up, because I don't really care, and there are a couple that might be added if you interpret some questions extremely liberally (like, lunars have access to the only fast healing in the game, so that's "unusual healing ability".)
Also, just posted her profile over on oc_analysis.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-03-30 03:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 02:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 04:46 am (UTC)It's certainly true that the Litmus test misses a lot of the subtleties (or in that case, the not-so-subtleties) of characterization; it would be great if there were instead a kind of Mary-Sue hotline people could call up and have real people ask them questions about their characters to get a more nuanced picture of their traits. Or an IRC channel, you know, the internet version of the above. ("Character counseling?") OC Analysis sort of functions that way, of course, but in that case the author does a lot of the framing of their character before others come in and ask questions about it.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 11:36 am (UTC)It's sad how there's such a variety of questions about romance, but the character only bings high on the superpowers side if their powers are varied or twin-telepathy and healing. I have a character who can single-handedly take out any person (or army) she meets for the first eight chapters by her sole power--hitting things really hard (and probably being bulletproof). She gets about 8 points for that. No, she gets all her points for her absolutely sideline romances, which are minor to the plot and angst free but never actually get anywhere.