Date: 2011-01-28 09:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ember-reignited.livejournal.com
I wouldn't. If it turns into a big Discussion it will all just get deleted for wasting space and being irrelevant to the actual quality of Farla's fics. And then this gloriousness will be gone and that will be sad.

Date: 2011-01-28 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
No, I meant on the discussion page. Conversing on the main page is forbidden, but it would be possible to argue with people from the discussion page.

Date: 2011-01-28 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] farla.livejournal.com
Ooh, the discussion page has some cuteness too!

Date: 2011-01-29 12:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ember-reignited.livejournal.com
You do not understand the themes of Pokémon. Shounen values are pure and irreproachable and do not get the slightest bit squicky when imposed upon a world where you legally own your nakama.

Date: 2011-01-29 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] farla.livejournal.com
I was actually thinking about how that's the issue here.

In shonen, purity is connected to adversity. The one who deserves a given thing is the one that struggles hardest for it, and heroic actions are usually a matter of going above and beyond what's necessary at the cost of your own body.

And then in Pokemon, you've got the same dynamic only it separates the person making the decisions/getting the rewards from the person doing the work. A shonen hero letting someone beat the crap out of them and refusing to give up is noble. A character ordering the shonen hero to get the crap beaten out of them is an asshole. A major part of shonen tropes is the character is so driven they're willing to voluntarily do things no one could ever ask of them.

Date: 2011-01-29 06:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ember-reignited.livejournal.com
And then there's the Viridian Gym episode that highlights the disconnect by showing us what it would look like if Ash were a legitimate shounen hero in that sense, and yet it's a one-off thing. Even as a little kid that episode left me going, "Wait, what? And that merits no introspection at all?"

Date: 2011-01-29 06:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] farla.livejournal.com
Oh god, that episode. "It's EVIL to make trainers feel what their pokemon go through!" I mean, yeah it's sadistic because it's not like it makes the pokemon suffer any less, but really, way to make it all about you, Ash.

Actually the other one where they make a big deal over Gary getting smacked around by Mewtwo was similarly off - what, if Gary's pokemon were all unconscious but he was still standing it'd have been okay? It's suddenly wrong now that a human was hurt?

Date: 2011-01-29 06:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ember-reignited.livejournal.com
And how do you go through that and not come out asking yourself, "Can I keep doing this?" I mean, the right answer is obviously "no," and we can't have that, but it wasn't even addressed and then handwaved with "but their Pokémon love them so it's all right!" like the show usually does when something highlights one of the more questionable aspects of battles.

Date: 2011-01-29 06:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] farla.livejournal.com
At the least there should have been the obligatory doubting scene, where Ash asks his pokemon if they want to stop. It'd still be a wallbanger because let's face it, it's never been explained why pokemon want to, and the idea they're doing it because they love their trainer just smacks of Stockholm, but at least Ash would've been trying.

And in a show that actually had character development, you'd have Ash learn that sometimes it's okay to forfeit if your pokemon are getting the shit beaten out of them, and otherwise being more concerned about winning with the minimum damage done to them.

(In a fanfic, which is less on the rails, I'd really like to see things where trainers start out being ordinary trainers, and realize it's fucked up around the point they're actually involved in something important, instead of badges, so they have a goal that isn't just about them. Like, if Ash's gym battle had led into an epic struggle against Team Rocket, instead of the Indigo Plateau fights.)

Date: 2011-01-29 07:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ember-reignited.livejournal.com
You know, I think when I first watched the show I was waiting for that to happen. The transition into an "epic struggle against Team Rocket," I mean. You have those early episodes with Giovanni in the shadows, and then in that episode you see him clearly for the first time, and he has Mewtwo, that's got to be leading somewhere, right? And of course, what it's leading to is a movie tie-in. Dammit.

And then the Championships happen, and Ash loses, and it's... not actually a big deal. And that's when ten-year-old me realizes what little overarching plot there is she is not invested in at all, just as the cast heads off to a new location that isn't in the games so there isn't even the excitement of seeing familiar game settings brought to life to look forward to. So yeah that was the point I decided the ridiculous Mary Sue story in my head was way more entertaining than anything the show had to offer, and that the time I spent watching it would be put to much better use daydreaming.

Date: 2011-01-29 07:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] farla.livejournal.com
I was so ridiculously excited about Giovanni back then. It had all the hallmarks of a slow-building plotline! I was all about the tropes and I totally knew what would happen. First they're in shadows, and you learn more, and finally they're shown in full, and then the hero finds out and there's the epic fight! (Also Mewtwo was the coolest thing ever, so it was going to be so awesome.)

Instead Ash is just "huh so Team Rocket controls the eighth gym...WELP THAT WAS MY LAST BADGE, OFF TO THE POKELYPICS!"

...to my shame I didn't realize it. I kept being strung along. Orange Islands! It's a new area that must be important right? Maybe it'll be part of the new games or something...no, but okay, now there's the GS ball! That's got to be import...or I guess it could not...

I forget how far I got into Johto. Around when Ash had replaced most of his team and the realization that we were on a permanent plot treadmill, because there wasn't even the illusion he was progressing as a trainer any longer.

And the worst part about it is the show really did seem like it originally was meant to have a plot arc. Early episode Ash actually learns from various events and slowly becomes more competent, even if it is at a snail's pace. And he hits various bits of game plot, like the SS Anne. And then at some point it all stops, and all the episodes become interchangeable.

Date: 2011-01-29 08:10 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Actually, the original plan for the series was to end it with the movie. In fact, the original ending was going to include an older Misty dragging along a child (presumably Ash's, but there is another woman in the shot) and an aged Pikachu looking off into the sunset. I mean, originally it was going to end with Pikachu running to the child and signify the inheritence of pokemon to the next generation.

After seeing it many years after the first movie and Johto, I think it would have been a great ending to the franchise and the games could just continue, but apparently they wanted to rake in more cash.

Once again, artistic finesse loses out to money.

Date: 2011-01-29 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] farla.livejournal.com
Hm. I mean, that's obviously better than what we've got now, but I have to admit that would still be a bit unsatisfying if we never saw Ash vs Giovanni.

I really wish they'd reset the franchise with a new character for each region, though.

Date: 2011-01-29 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ember-reignited.livejournal.com
That would be nice! Then we could have actual plot and character arcs!

Date: 2011-01-29 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ameliorer.livejournal.com
That's why the manga is so much better!

Date: 2011-01-29 07:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] charizamdc.livejournal.com
Look at the sadistic little grin on pikachu's face whenever it's about to light someone up. I think we all know why it wants to fight.

Date: 2011-01-29 07:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] farla.livejournal.com
Point. But does Pikachu enjoy battling in particular, or would it prefer to just roam free, attacking the weak and stupid without fear of retaliation? Note its preferred target when not battling is Ash.

Profile

farla: (Default)
farla

April 2022

S M T W T F S
     12
3456789
10111213 141516
17181920212223
24252627282930

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Dec. 31st, 2025 07:45 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios