Actually, Farla, I think you'll dfind it was perfectly acceptable. You see, he was an enemy combatant. not an enemy soldier, so it's fine to kill or maim him.
That happens all the time in D&D. People want to do evil stuff, but don't want the inconveniences of actually having to declare themselves evil. There was an extremely long and heated debate about a captive in a recent campaign I was in.
Yes, and it's why I run screaming from actual D&D.
Here, it's not even a rationalization to do what you feel like - none of the people arguing are the player trying not to get in trouble! I could at least understand that! They just sincerely believe that a mere one evil action of maiming and then torturing to death someone isn't enough to make them evil.
It's because of the way the alignment system works out: by degrees. Do something evil and you might go one point towards evil, but still be good. Do something *really* evil and you might go seven points towards evil, but if you've got enough 'points' towards the good side, you'll still end up staying good (at least, that's how it works in my Neverwinter Nights PC game; I dunno how similar it is in a forum/tabletop RPG, but judging by that thread it sounds at least somewhat the same).
Kind of stupid on a real-world scale; personally I hate the D&D alignment system. Often, it ignores intent/circumstance and focusses on a person's actions.
In NWN I can *never* go evil. XD I just can't get myself to choose the evil options; I feel horrible if I do. Sometimes, though, my alignment shifts when I do something the game recognises as evil, but which I don't agree should be (or at least not so much as it is).
Meh. XD Other than my inherent inability to do bad stuff, I usually just ignore the alignment system and go with my gut.
Well, in D&D there's no points system (at least, not in the version I play, which is 3.5; haven't tried the newest). It's down to the DM whether they think that an act is enough to sway a character from one end of the alignment scale to another. No matter how good you've been, doing something or expressing motivation "evil enough" is enough to sway you towards evil can get your alignment changed.
I think what Farla's more horrified at here is more that people looking at the situation objectively can't agree whether cutting off someone's legs and dragging them behind a horse for two days constitutes "evil" or "totally legitimate response to threats."
IMO the other characters in the group would get at least neutral alignment changes for not trying to do something about it, regardless of how intimidated they were.
Yeah, I was thinking in terms of PC game mechanics; clearly they're not the same that I was thinking they are, though. I've never played RPG/tabletop, so I probably shouldn't have been trying to make a judgement based on that alone.
That said, I did get what Farla was trying to say--but, I was coming to it from a mechanical angle and didn't express myself properly. >.< Otherwise, I do agree--something like that should not require so much discussion.
IMO the other characters in the group would get at least neutral alignment changes for not trying to do something about it, regardless of how intimidated they were.
That would be how I'd see it. The only debate I'd have expected would be about those characters (single action and under duress = still good-ish? Making no effort at all to help the guy being ripped apart for two days = heading toward evil?) and which type of evil the paladin is.
It's things like this that make me glad that no one I play D&D with cares about keeping track of alignment (or playing classes which require an alignment of Lawful Anal or Chaotic Delusion or whatever-- I've never seen the attractiveness of paladins, f'r instance).
Granted, our character parties tend to be dysfunctional in every other way, so I guess that makes up for it.
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Date: 2008-10-01 08:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 08:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 08:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 08:58 pm (UTC)Here, it's not even a rationalization to do what you feel like - none of the people arguing are the player trying not to get in trouble! I could at least understand that! They just sincerely believe that a mere one evil action of maiming and then torturing to death someone isn't enough to make them evil.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-02 06:39 am (UTC)Kind of stupid on a real-world scale; personally I hate the D&D alignment system. Often, it ignores intent/circumstance and focusses on a person's actions.
In NWN I can *never* go evil. XD I just can't get myself to choose the evil options; I feel horrible if I do. Sometimes, though, my alignment shifts when I do something the game recognises as evil, but which I don't agree should be (or at least not so much as it is).
Meh. XD Other than my inherent inability to do bad stuff, I usually just ignore the alignment system and go with my gut.
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Date: 2008-10-02 08:12 pm (UTC)I think what Farla's more horrified at here is more that people looking at the situation objectively can't agree whether cutting off someone's legs and dragging them behind a horse for two days constitutes "evil" or "totally legitimate response to threats."
IMO the other characters in the group would get at least neutral alignment changes for not trying to do something about it, regardless of how intimidated they were.
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Date: 2008-10-03 05:13 am (UTC)That said, I did get what Farla was trying to say--but, I was coming to it from a mechanical angle and didn't express myself properly. >.< Otherwise, I do agree--something like that should not require so much discussion.
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Date: 2008-10-03 12:16 pm (UTC)That would be how I'd see it. The only debate I'd have expected would be about those characters (single action and under duress = still good-ish? Making no effort at all to help the guy being ripped apart for two days = heading toward evil?) and which type of evil the paladin is.
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Date: 2008-10-06 09:21 pm (UTC)Granted, our character parties tend to be dysfunctional in every other way, so I guess that makes up for it.