Eridan Meta Part Two/Who Knows

[farla]

Onward.

First, a quick stop at a conversation about Eridan, rather than one he's involved in:

CC: Well I am going to join my team pretty late.
CC: I t)(ink I )(ave to!
CC: I will need to connect after my goofball moirail does so I can keep my goggles on )(is nefarious escapades.
CC: Its a toug)( job but its important! Everyone )(as an important job to do.
GA: Yeah
CC: Isnt t)(at w)(at youre doing too? Joining late to keep an eye on yours?
GA: I Dont Know For A Fact That She Is Mine
CC: )(a)(a youre not supposed to know for a FACT dummy!
CC: You just do w)(at you t)(ink is rig)(t and even if you were wrong t)(e worst t)(at )(appened was you )(elped somebody and )(elped t)(e w)(ole world too!

Kanaya goes on to suggest that Feferi has the most burdens of any kid, with an unknown level of seriousness, which I bring up because it appears Eridan is considered one of them.

CC: T)(ey arent burdens!
CC: Ok I guess t)(ey are )(a)(a.
CC: But I love t)(em and I wouldnt )(ave it any ot)(er way because t)(is is w)(y Im )(ere!

Eridan is a burden, viewed by others as a burden, and while Feferi talks about Eridan in nice terms, she views it as an obligation.

Also, look at Feferi's attitude here. She's extremely nice. We later see that she's on friendly terms with everyone. She likes Sollux's mood swings, she likes Vriska's nastiness. She keeps thousands of pets because she likes caring for things so much.

Eridan managed to emotionally exhaust this person.

We then see their first conversation.



CA: hey
CC: ?
CA: glub
CC: Glub glub!
CC: 38)
CA: yeah
CA: hm
CC: W)(at is it!!!
CA: wwhat
CC: I am wondering if you can forego t)(e exaggerated emotional t)(eatrics for once and actually tell me w)(at's on your mind!
CA: nothins on my mind wwhy cant i just fuckin talk and glub at you for a reason i dont havve
CC: 38|
CA: wwell fine but you dont wwant to hear it

Just to forestall arguments - Feferi is greeting him enthusiastically and with a smiley. Only after that does she demand to know what's up, and it's in response to yeah/hm and has her referencing emotional theatrics. I would guess this means Eridan's usual behavior is to moan vaguely about things to try to get people to ask what's wrong, then pretend he doesn't want to tell them and make them keep asking and asking until he's satisfied. That's really annoying and will quickly get people responding with demands you just spit it out every time it looks like you're about to start it up again.

CC: Yes I do.
CC: We are supposed to talk to eac)( ot)(er, t)(at is w)(at moirails are for.
CA: uhuh wwhatevver
CC: Glub glub glub glub siiiiig)(.

Eridan may have a red crush on Feferi, but either he doesn't care about her feelings or doesn't notice she's unhappy with how he treats her in their current relationship. It's not that he's acting red while she's acting pale and that's stressing the relationship, he's just refusing to participate in it beyond demanding her attention and sulking without explaining himself. So he's whining to everyone else about how much he hates this and acting like a dick toward her rather than just tell her what's really going on.

CC: Will you take t)(e c)(ip off your nub and tell me w)(at's t)(e matter?
CA: yeah wwell ok since wwe are the PALEST OF PALS A GUY COULD EVVER ASK FOR

Once again, it's unclear if Eridan disdains the entire concept of moirallegiance or if this is resentment based on being dissatisfied with this relationship in particular. But he sure does sound sarcastic and resentful here.

CA: i wwill tell you
CA: evven though you wwill only humor me as usual since you dont agree wwith my agenda
CA: any of my agendas really
CA: none of the agendas
CA: none of them

Here we're introduced to the other half of their relationship problems. Feferi wants equality and protection for the lower classes. Eridan wants them dead. They don't have particularly compatible worldviews, and because they're not actually functioning as proper moirails, this conflict just stays at a deadlock - Eridan keeps repeating the same behaviors to Feferi's exhaustion, and Eridan keeps thinking he's right and only holds off because it's not what Feferi wants even though it's still what he wants.

(Possibly this is why Eridan clings so tightly to his hated pale quadrant with her - it's unlikely a matespritship could survive this sort of attitude clash, and also, as long as she views him as a threat to others she'd refuse out of obligation. Maybe he had some plan of convincing her he was right first, before confessing his flushed interest.)

CC: Are you fretting over anot)(er one of t)(ese dumb contraptions?
CA: see
CA: more condescension

(As an aside, I feel fandom overstates the condescending!Feferi thing and will interpret reasonable comments of hers in that light.)

CA: you are goin to make a hell of an empress
CC: No I'm not! But t)(at is beside t)(e point.
CC: None of your plots to kill t)(e land dwellers ever work out, and every doomsday device you get your )(ands on turns out to be a piece of junk!
CA: so
CA: i got to keep tryin thats howw all the great military masterminds became great through upright persevverance

Unfortunately, we never see Eridan with one of these. Does he attempt to use them, and what are they intended to do?

The conservative option is that Eridan gets them with the intention of storing them for later. He checks to see if they work at all, discovers they don't, and goes back to get another one, but he doesn't intend to actually fire them off, at least not yet.

Another option is that he does try to set them off and that's how he knows they don't work. While Eridan says he's not killing people because of Feferi's feelings, he's specifying doing by using her lusus - he may think that she'd be particularly upset for her own lusus who she's in charge of to be the one to wipe out other trolls, so he's pursuing other options for the moment. Finding a way to wipe out the majority of your race leaving a certain chunk completely untouched is kind of hard, after all, so maybe he really doesn't have any other way of accomplishing it.

Personally I'd guess the truth is somewhere in the middle.

CC: I t)(ink deep down you stack t)(ese plots against you so you fail because you know it's wrong.

And here's where we get this interpretation of Eridan's behavior. At the time, it seemed quite plausible given we knew of Eridan's landdweller friends and his immediate reassurance that he'd never kill Kanaya, as well as the assumption we wouldn't have a main character who would do something like this.

Looking back with the knowledge Feferi was miserable from constantly trying to talk Eridan down from murdering everyone, it seems more likely she simply wanted it to be true. If she really thought that, she wouldn't have felt like she had to stay his moirail to keep people safe.

CA: it isnt wwrong
CA: im not going to explain it to you again
CA: at this point all you need to knoww is its important to me

This is another point in favor of Eridan fundamentally not liking the idea of moirails.

This is a valid thing to say in some situations. If you really like watching racing, and your friends don't get it, it's fine to tell them that it's not a big deal all that should matter to them is that you do enjoy it. If you really like killing people and your friends don't (or vice versa), it is a big deal so if they don't get it, you probably just shouldn't be friends.

However, if you had a moirail, which is a relationship based around people having differing opinions and making each other listen to them for mutual good, you can't declare topics done with because you can't give any good reason but you just want to and if they really liked you they'd just go along with it because you want them to.

CA: and im doing it for us
CA: i mean our kind

This is an interesting correction. He might just have felt suddenly embarrassed that his first statement could be read as meaning just the two of them, but they're already in a pairing, so even if he's nervous about his flushed feelings, she'd read it as the pale relationship.

What other reason would he correct himself about? Well, one thing that jumps to mind is the idea he'd have a better chance with Feferi if the landdwellers were gone. He might also think Feferi would be better off with less to worry about from her lusus, or sincerely believe the rest of the hemospectrum is a threat to the two of them for some reason. But the way he says this, particularly with the knowledge he doesn't seem to much care about other seadwellers, makes me pretty sure it must be some reason.

CA: nobody understands not evven you
CC: T)(is is t)(e last time I will say t)(is.
CC: W-E AR-E NOT B-ETT-ER T)(AN ANYBODY!!!!!
CC: GLUB. >38(
CA: pshh
CA: hemospectrum begs to differ

With that last bit in mind, how much does Eridan care about the hemospectrum? I think exactly as much as we see here: the hemospectrum says he's better than everyone else.

CC: If you're as sickened by t)(em as you say, w)(y do you spend so muc)( time on land?
CC: You can't )(ave t)(e sort of affinity for "our kind" t)(at you profess if you've only spent, w)(at...
CC: A few days underwater, maybe? IN YOUR W)(OL-E LIF-E!
CA: wwhatevver
CA: i havve to keep an eye on em up here
CA: its all about tactics
CC: W)(at about your friends? Do you ever t)(ink about t)(em?
CC: If t)(ey are beneat)( you t)(en t)(ey )(ave to die too.
CC: And I know you like talking to some of t)(em. You say you )(ate t)(em but I t)(ink you are pretending!

This is definitely the strongest point in favor of Eridan not really being genocidal. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have been enough.

I think Eridan really doesn't seem to have any interest in "their kind", and Feferi's likely correct that he has no interest in the sea. And, of course, he does seem to get along with the landdwellers just fine. In fact, Feferi may be his only seadwelling friend. The problem is that Eridan ultimately doesn't particularly need a reason for genocide. It's one of his interests.

CA: history is full of cases wwhere conquerers consort wwith members of the enemy in a mannerly wway before wwipin them out
CA: evven goin as far as growwin fond a some
CA: its only civvilized

Let's consider here that Eridan is actually correct that this can happen, so while at the time this read as him just being in denial, it's just as readable as Eridan saying that he is completely capable of consorting with or being fond of someone and then killing them. Particularly when the latter is how things will end up going down.

CC: Mmm )(mm.
CC: I )(ave a fis)(y feeling...
CC: T)(at t)(is stupid doomsday mac)(ine t)(ing is just anot)(er excuse to consort!
CC: Wit)( someone in particular...

Vriska, and the unspecified-level of rivalry rears its head again! Interestingly, I don't believe Vriska's moderately high blood is ever mentioned by Eridan as a reason the rivalry is a good one, which in turn does suggest the possibility his feelings for Feferi have nothing to do with the hemospectrum. On the other hand, Eridan never seems to have much interest in the gradations of the hemospectrum beyond if someone has gills or not, so it's not proof.

CA: all your feelins are fishy
CC: 38P
CA: GLUBGLUBGLUBGLUBGLUBGLUB
CC: 38O
CC: DON'T YOU GLUB IN T)(AT TON-E OF GLUB WIT)( M-E MIST-ER!
CA: ill glub in wwhatevver dumbass bubbly soundin fishnoise i wwant to glub
CC: O)( S)(IT, you are angling for SO MUC)( TROUBL-E NOW.
CA: ok please lets just not get into the wwhole fuckin fish pun thing again ok
CA: like wwe get it wwe are nautically themed

At the time I think everyone just nodded in agreement with Eridan, since Feferi is one of the trolls who gets the most complaints about her quirk.

Now that we know relationships often involve one character using the other character's quirk, it's interesting to see that Eridan not only doesn't do this, he actually hates her quirk.

It's stuff like this that makes it unclear what exactly it is about Feferi that Eridan likes so much.

He stays in a quadrant he hates because it's with her, he aids her in preventing the genocide he wants so much, and she'll ultimately be the only one he offers to let live when he decides to go to Jack. He must care a lot about her.

But they have completely opposed opinions and outlooks. Eridan has numerous landdweller friends, while Feferi's degree of involvement with the rest of the kids seems to have been minimal before the game. Eridan spends his time on land or in the air while Feferi spends her time underwater with various aquatic animals. Feferi glubs happily and uses fish puns, while Eridan disdains even those bits of the ocean. (I believe he and Equius are also the only ones who'll act as though quirks themselves are childish.)

So what about Feferi does Eridan like so much? It might just be a straight up irrational crush. Otherwise, it's pretty mysterious. It's why I mentioned last time that people should really consider Eridan's loyalties in the event of a hemospectrum rebellion - he has no reason to support it other than Feferi, and we have no idea why he supports Feferi or how much.

CC: )(-E)(-E ok. 38)

(Which is not to say poor put-upon Feferi whose moirail doesn't like her quirk. Just that it's yet another point where they don't seem compatible.)

CA: but yeah i dunno
CA: i dont knoww wwhy she ignores me i guess shes just bored wwith me
CA: wwe had it all set up for her to givve me this thing tonight that probably doesnt evven wwork but yeah maybe that wwasnt the point

It's odd that he says "maybe", instead of simply that it wasn't the point. Eridan generally doesn't seem to have the best grasp on his feelings when it comes to why he's doing things. I would say it's really unlikely he started commissioning these doomsday devices, but rather that he continued to do so after they failed because he found it rewarding for other reasons. He still wants a working one and would be happy with it, but he's found that being in nonproductive cahoots is also rewarding. If you're considering ways for Eridan to change for the better, this kind of thing is actually pretty promising. Would things have gone differently if he and Vriska had remained on good hate-filled terms?

CA: i mean you think wwe havve a pretty good rivvalry goin right
CA: or at least had
CA: it wwas pretty fuckin bitter and contentious for a wwhile there and there wwas some good chemistry i dont knoww wwhat happened

Considering how Vriska is acting at this point, I always figured it was a matter of her self-loathing catching up with her again and her pulling out of her current relationships due to depression. Feferi will go on to suggest something similar. That said, for whatever reason when she's in a good mood by the end of the game she has no interest in Eridan, so their relationship might also have begun because she was depressed in the post-blinding period.

CC: Um, I guess?
CC: I wouldn't really know.
CC: Sometimes people just drift away I t)(ink, or just aren't as into t)(e quadrant as t)(e ot)(er wants to be.
CC: So you really t)(ink your feelings for )(er run t)(at dark?
CA: it doesnt matter like i said shes bored shitless
CA: i guess im not as good a advversary as i thought
CC: T)(at is so ridiculous, any girl would be lucky to )(ave a kismesis as diabolical as you, especially T)(AT one.
CC: W)(o knows w)(at )(er problem is! S)(e )(as issues.

She does indeed.

Note Eridan's failure to respond to the comment about people being in the wrong quadrant.

Eridan comes off far better in this conversation than he did in the last. This may have something to do with having more respect for Feferi, or it may be that Feferi is better at handling him - either way, he's not trying to boss her around like he did Kanaya and he's more willing to consider his own behavior.

CA: ehhh
CA: wwell ok thanks for sayin so

That said - there's no real attachment to Vriska here either. Eridan is mollified by Feferi's suggestion it's not his fault. He seems concerned about Vriska's reaction in what it means about him - that he's boring, or bad as a kismesis - but not in what it mights about Vriska and their future relationship. We only see him again trying to get with Vriska after he's gotten desperate for quadrants and is hitting on everyone.

CC: You know, I'm not sure w)(y we never talk about our romantic aspirations.
CC: We s)(ould more often. It is kind of -EXCITING!
CA: shrug
CC: Probably because you fill your gossip quota wit)( your nubby )(orned bro.

Another mention of how he spends an awful lot of time talking quadrants with Karkat. I'd really like to know what those looked like - we know for the Sgrub period giving Eridan quadrant advice is about as effective as feeding a black hole, but Eridan is at his whiniest by that point, and there's no sign of them discussing things other than Eridan either. It seems that prior to Sgrub they were chatting about everyone else's love life, and while we know why Karkat found that so interesting, what attracted Eridan?

And it's interesting to consider how Karkat's own self-loathing blood issues might fit with his friend being in favor of killing off everyone below purple.

CC: You leave not)(ing left to talk about wit)( your dear sweet moirail!
CC: We are supposed to )(elp eac)( ot)(er wit)( t)(at stuff too, remember.

This raises the possibility that Eridan may be acting pale for other people since he's not interested in Feferi. I think it's unlikely, though - Karkat is pretty sensitive to quadrant matters and relatively good at them when it's not his own relationships, so I'd expect him to notice if he's about to become a pale homewrecker. And certainly if he was getting any advice from Karkat, it had no more impact than Feferi's did.

CA: maybe
CA: seems kinda
CA: odd though
CC: Your stupid fis)(y face is w)(at's odd!
CC: )(AV-E YOU -EV-ER T)(OUG)(T ABOUT T)(AT??

Feferi: playfully joking or fed up with trying to keep this relationship going with no interest from Eridan's side of things?

CA: fine
CA: wwell those are my stupid feelins wwhat about yours
CA: seems to me like you get along too wwell wwith evverybody to be harborin any black sentiments
CC: Um...
CC: Yea)(. I can't t)(ink of anybody I feel t)(at way about. 38\
CC: Maybe I am just not old enoug)( to )(ave t)(ose feelings yet? We are still pretty young you know.

While Feferi♥Eridan has a lot of hurdles to overcome, it's pretty easy to see Feferi♠Eridan happening. The only real hurdles there are if you believe Feferi's statements here mean she's not able to feel black for anyone and if Eridan's own feelings are stuck on red.

CA: yeah
CC: So ok. T)(ose are your black leanings.
CC: W)(at about R-ED, ------Eridan???
CC: )(MMMMM??????? 38D
CA: oh god
CC: Is t)(ere a lucky lady you are waxing scarlet for?
CC: OR LUCKY F-ELLOW??? 38O
CA: uh
CC: Tell me!
CC: Don't pretend you're all -EMBARRASS-ED SUDD-ENLY!!!
CA: ok fef
CA: this is NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS
CC: 38o
CA: i gotta go
CA: be back later wwhen its time to play

caligulasAquarium [CA] ceased trolling cuttlefishCuller [CC]

CC: 38(

The fact that Eridan's unhappy with the relationship does mean this kind of behavior has more reason behind it than him just being a dick. But it's still pretty dickish, particularly when there's no sense that he just can't find an opening to bring it up. She's talking about romantic changes in a very nonjudgmental way throughout this - that people can just not be suited, that someone might not be into the quadrant. Eridan never takes the chance to tell her the truth. Instead he ends up shutting the conversation down entirely. He doesn't even seem interested in feeling out her response - he asks about black feelings but doesn't try to find out if she has any existing red crush that might get in the way, and also doesn't want to discuss what her red leaning are in general.

Comments

[niesse.livejournal.com]

(Why did you have to link to that picture? It is my one weakness!)

A good black relationship might have helped, but I doubt how much. I think at best he'd include his kismesis on his list of people to try to avoid killing. What he really needs is a proper moirallegiance, or at least a landdweller red crush.

And it's interesting to consider how Karkat's own self-loathing blood issues might fit with his friend being in favor of killing off everyone below purple.

What do you mean here? Karkat's put an enormous amount of effort into not being killed off.

[farla.livejournal.com]

Well, what I'm thinking is, both Vriska and Eridan were planning to go after Jack, they just had completely different ideas of what they would do. If Vriska and Eridan were still in cahoots, it might have tipped Eridan over into going with Vriska to kill Jack instead of giving up.

That's only true if the Jack decision was one Eridan struggled with, of course. If it isn't, he'd go, shoot her in the back, and try to use her corpse to convince Jack he's loyal.

What do you mean here? Karkat's put an enormous amount of effort into not being killed off.

I don't mean he's suicidal. Just that he undoubtedly spent the time putting up with being called a worthless gutterblood and listening to Eridan talk about how even trolls on the hemospectrum are trash, all the while knowing his blood doesn't even qualify for that. Did he put up with it because he already had huge enough inferiority issues that Eridan was saying something part of him believed, or are the conversations with Eridan part of why he has such severe issues about his blood?

[princeliness.livejournal.com]

thank you for this!

(As an aside, I feel fandom overstates the condescending!Feferi thing and will interpret reasonable comments of hers in that light.)

i agree with this. i think there's a loud group of people who seem to think she's less interesting if they can't interpret her lines as rude and it's annoying. she teases other characters sometimes, and she gets mad at eridan, but neither of those things means she's an asshole.

[farla.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the progression I saw went from people saying she's boring (...because she has few lines, how does that make sense), then people saying she's not just a one-dimensional bubbly girl but has a spine, to people saying that she's a one-dimensional jerk girl but they're fans really fans.

[(Anonymous)]

CA: history is full of cases wwhere conquerers consort wwith members of the enemy in a mannerly wway before wwipin them out
CA: evven goin as far as growwin fond a some
CA: its only civvilized

I love how this part of the pesterlog is a tragic bit of foreshadowing in retrospect.

[farla.livejournal.com]

An awful lot of it is. There were all these lines that could be either Eridan deluding himself about how he so totally could kill his friends...or Eridan actually saying he could kill his friends without a problem. At the time, everyone naturally went for option A. Then Eridan killed his friends.