Finished reading it on Serebii the other day, and it'd be spoilery to review on ff.net right now - guess I'll reply here too - oh, in two parts, it seems it's too long for one post. [Rozzlynn/Kiii, and I'm not sure if I've used this account here before but I think I'll be sticking with it from now on.] I saw some of the posts about Lucki here before I read it, so I knew from the start that it was a metaparody and that a flareon called Flare would be abused, but I still didn't pick up on quite everything.
The fic was pretty boring most of the way through (if filled with disturbing little things that weren't meant the way Sue-authors would have meant them); it got slowly, gradually more interesting in the latter half, until everything kicked off. And then it was worth it. <3 That 'destroyed the world to get back at a boy who saved her life, and a pokemon who would have died for her' sentence really is... I'm not even sure of the word, but even though the 'Training' chapter was the most mind-numbingly boring and pointless thing that I'd read for a long while, it'd have been worth it a great many times over for that.
I didn't get that Silver was unsuited for battle until she started openly freaking out about it (the 'trapped', terrified stare and the 'it may seem really, really scary...' talk). Before that, she seemed to fight well enough that the 'shinies are not bred to be fighters' thing didn't look like a problem in her case. Her meekness was a bit hard to tell apart from 'finding that things are unexpectedly hard but not wanting to give up yet' at the start, as opposed to 'trying to cope with a situation she's been thrown into'; realistically, the in-story characters should have been able to tell the difference better than the readers, from actually seeing her body language, right? (Not that I think the start should be any less subtle - it's realistic as it is, and readers don't need to get it right away.)
When Trike was caught, he did strike me as someone too young to be making that sort of decision. That was probably the creepiest of the early bits - seeing an easily confused tyke talked into leaving with a stranger with such an "it's a good thing!" vibe going on, and the trainer hoping that future captures wouldn't be as 'difficult'. o.0 When Lucky renamed him, I did wonder how Flare could go as far as to say 'a better name?' without her remembering that she'd promised him one too - I guess he just couldn't do anything as dramatic as evolve to make her think more highly of him, make her think anew that he needed a more impressive/fitting title, when he couldn't even impress her by winning tough battles. And when she basically ordered him to run laps until he collapsed from exhaustion? (And he got up and did so, and she promptly ignored him?) Ouch. T.T If only he'd had a little more time with his new Team Magma trainer before the apocalypse.
I probably noticed those parts more than I would have if I hadn't seen the comments about Flare in the LJ, but still, that's how it seemed. Saurius didn't stand out as much to me; we never really knew much about him. The Absol... heh. It's a story with a Sue and a SI, but they're not the same - kinda weird. When you ranted about Lucki in the Mary Sue report, you seemed glad to get off your chest all the annoying stuff about her that other people might not notice (almost as if it would be painful for people not to get just how thoroughly badly-written all the Sueishness is), but the 'rant' about Fara definitely seemed more of a fake-rant about things that you wanted people to get curious about so that they'd read the story and see how she really is - after all, the 'truth' about that Absol is pretty inextricable from the point of the story. And yet you changed tracks without breaking your stride - a minor '*blink* huh?' moment.
Sorry for the early boredom - I may well revise it if I can ever figure out a way that won't sacrifice the basic trainerficness. ^^ Although I made my family read it, I only forced the post-thirteen chapters on them. I'm glad the end was enough to make up for it.
When Lucky renamed him, I did wonder how Flare could go as far as to say 'a better name?' without her remembering that she'd promised him one too The same way my kind, wonderful readers could. My ending bit about how they're the same as Lucki was probably taken as a bit hyperbolic, but I did mean it. Since icemew was following their advice, if they'd brought it up it would have been changed.
I didn't get that Silver was unsuited for battle until she started openly freaking out about it It's kind of a Schroedinger's cat situation. Silver isn't unsuited for battle until Ch14 and on. Before that, two conflicting realities both exist, and they're both true as long as they aren't forced into contradiction. She's both objectively small, frail, and of a weaker bred line, and a perfectly decent battler. It can be justified in-story, as the battles are getting harder and she's not capable of improving to the same degree, but it's really one of the more parodic elements. Lucki's version of the story could have continued if she just hadn't kept the absol.
And yes, Fara...I'm actually thinking of changing the absol's name when she appears, since for one thing, it's a lot more obvious now, and since I don't really want her coming off as a real self-insert - gets too close to one of those parodies where an author stand-in shows up to tear the story down. Irin, maybe. Or Er. (I'd use something like Yan or Ying, but that'd violate the idea of her being something that stands on its own rather than being tied to humans.)
Link to the Mary Sue report? I'm fangirling this story with all of my little fangirl heart, and now that I've finished it, there really isn't much more to do besides reread it as it's posted on FF.net. That's frustrating. I want more goodies. If you ever want someone to ramble almost incoherently about it at, use me. I'd be THRILLED.
(Also, I caught Flare's reasoning behind the comment about Tryke's new name! There were a lot of things that I DIDN'T catcth, but I'd like to think that I still passed the test...)
Well, the mary sue report can be found here (http://community.livejournal.com/marysues/2554298.html), but it's not really much beyond the weirdness of me attacking myself for my writing.
My ending bit about how they're the same as Lucki was probably taken as a bit hyperbolic, but I did mean it. I wouldn't call it the same for Lucki to forget about Flare's promised re-naming and for the readers to do so; from her perspective, it had only been three days, her pokemon were at the center of her life, and Flare's reminder was about something she'd actively said and thought herself. Lucki would have had to have been incredibly self-absorbed not to notice (which she was, of course), while readers just had to be people who didn't re-read or remember enough about something they read online a few weeks/months ago. (I'd check the dates but the page isn't loading.)
It's kind of a Schroedinger's cat situation. Nice analysis - and Schroedinger's turtle is a cute image, for some reason. ^.^ (Not counting the nature of the thought experiment.) Could you put a Schroedinger training a squirtle into Reality? (Or would non-SI real person fic be too crossover-y?)
Yeah, Irin does work better for the ff.net one. It's curious, though; pokemon speech doesn't seem like it'd be easily transliterated. Do names that pokemon recieve in the absence of human culture exist as things exactly compatible with the Roman alphabet? Irin seems like she might have had a lot of contact with humans before, if she can speak English fluently; was there only one way to say her name in English, or did she adapt it to the closest word...?
I wouldn't call it the same for Lucki to forget about Flare's promised re-naming and for the readers to do so; from her perspective, it had only been three days, her pokemon were at the center of her life, and Flare's reminder was about something she'd actively said and thought herself.
Well, in a story, you're being presented with a limited amount of information, and dialogue is supposed to have meaning, as are scenes in general. It's somewhat apples and oranges, I suppose. But of the readers ever mentioned Flare's name, not in the long leadup to that scene, not when Lucki is trying to figure out what to call Tryke, not even when I asked them for a name for the evolved manectric.
Could you put a Schroedinger training a squirtle into Reality? (Or would non-SI real person fic be too crossover-y?) Clever but yes, too self-referential. (Also, the underlying workings of Reality often verge on Shroedinger states)
It's curious, though; pokemon speech doesn't seem like it'd be easily transliterated. Do names that pokemon recieve in the absence of human culture exist as things exactly compatible with the Roman alphabet? Irin seems like she might have had a lot of contact with humans before, if she can speak English fluently; was there only one way to say her name in English, or did she adapt it to the closest word...?
Artistic liberty, I'm afraid. The absol is supposed to be a counterpoint to the rest of the team, so she has a name while they don't and she can express herself without it being translated. She's meant as more or less of a demigod, so she lacks certain restrictions. Her speech is an expression of this, not a sign of earlier experience with humans, although she might have run into them before.
Pokemon names are an especially thorny issue. I've never heard a good way of resolving it. Like most people, I normally prefer to dodge by not naming, using nicknames, or using names assembled from words, where they could be translated. (I avoided mentioning what Saurius' actual name was for similar reasons.) Sometimes authors go with transliterated names, but that seems pretty unwieldy. I remember Dragonfree jumped through hoops to avoid the problem entirely in her story.
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farla
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Date: 2007-05-08 11:53 pm (UTC)The fic was pretty boring most of the way through (if filled with disturbing little things that weren't meant the way Sue-authors would have meant them); it got slowly, gradually more interesting in the latter half, until everything kicked off. And then it was worth it. <3 That 'destroyed the world to get back at a boy who saved her life, and a pokemon who would have died for her' sentence really is... I'm not even sure of the word, but even though the 'Training' chapter was the most mind-numbingly boring and pointless thing that I'd read for a long while, it'd have been worth it a great many times over for that.
I didn't get that Silver was unsuited for battle until she started openly freaking out about it (the 'trapped', terrified stare and the 'it may seem really, really scary...' talk). Before that, she seemed to fight well enough that the 'shinies are not bred to be fighters' thing didn't look like a problem in her case. Her meekness was a bit hard to tell apart from 'finding that things are unexpectedly hard but not wanting to give up yet' at the start, as opposed to 'trying to cope with a situation she's been thrown into'; realistically, the in-story characters should have been able to tell the difference better than the readers, from actually seeing her body language, right? (Not that I think the start should be any less subtle - it's realistic as it is, and readers don't need to get it right away.)
When Trike was caught, he did strike me as someone too young to be making that sort of decision. That was probably the creepiest of the early bits - seeing an easily confused tyke talked into leaving with a stranger with such an "it's a good thing!" vibe going on, and the trainer hoping that future captures wouldn't be as 'difficult'. o.0 When Lucky renamed him, I did wonder how Flare could go as far as to say 'a better name?' without her remembering that she'd promised him one too - I guess he just couldn't do anything as dramatic as evolve to make her think more highly of him, make her think anew that he needed a more impressive/fitting title, when he couldn't even impress her by winning tough battles. And when she basically ordered him to run laps until he collapsed from exhaustion? (And he got up and did so, and she promptly ignored him?) Ouch. T.T If only he'd had a little more time with his new Team Magma trainer before the apocalypse.
I probably noticed those parts more than I would have if I hadn't seen the comments about Flare in the LJ, but still, that's how it seemed. Saurius didn't stand out as much to me; we never really knew much about him. The Absol... heh. It's a story with a Sue and a SI, but they're not the same - kinda weird. When you ranted about Lucki in the Mary Sue report, you seemed glad to get off your chest all the annoying stuff about her that other people might not notice (almost as if it would be painful for people not to get just how thoroughly badly-written all the Sueishness is), but the 'rant' about Fara definitely seemed more of a fake-rant about things that you wanted people to get curious about so that they'd read the story and see how she really is - after all, the 'truth' about that Absol is pretty inextricable from the point of the story. And yet you changed tracks without breaking your stride - a minor '*blink* huh?' moment.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-09 01:33 am (UTC)When Lucky renamed him, I did wonder how Flare could go as far as to say 'a better name?' without her remembering that she'd promised him one too
The same way my kind, wonderful readers could. My ending bit about how they're the same as Lucki was probably taken as a bit hyperbolic, but I did mean it. Since icemew was following their advice, if they'd brought it up it would have been changed.
I didn't get that Silver was unsuited for battle until she started openly freaking out about it
It's kind of a Schroedinger's cat situation. Silver isn't unsuited for battle until Ch14 and on. Before that, two conflicting realities both exist, and they're both true as long as they aren't forced into contradiction. She's both objectively small, frail, and of a weaker bred line, and a perfectly decent battler. It can be justified in-story, as the battles are getting harder and she's not capable of improving to the same degree, but it's really one of the more parodic elements. Lucki's version of the story could have continued if she just hadn't kept the absol.
And yes, Fara...I'm actually thinking of changing the absol's name when she appears, since for one thing, it's a lot more obvious now, and since I don't really want her coming off as a real self-insert - gets too close to one of those parodies where an author stand-in shows up to tear the story down. Irin, maybe. Or Er. (I'd use something like Yan or Ying, but that'd violate the idea of her being something that stands on its own rather than being tied to humans.)
no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 01:28 am (UTC)(Also, I caught Flare's reasoning behind the comment about Tryke's new name! There were a lot of things that I DIDN'T catcth, but I'd like to think that I still passed the test...)
no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-18 01:20 am (UTC)I wouldn't call it the same for Lucki to forget about Flare's promised re-naming and for the readers to do so; from her perspective, it had only been three days, her pokemon were at the center of her life, and Flare's reminder was about something she'd actively said and thought herself. Lucki would have had to have been incredibly self-absorbed not to notice (which she was, of course), while readers just had to be people who didn't re-read or remember enough about something they read online a few weeks/months ago. (I'd check the dates but the page isn't loading.)
It's kind of a Schroedinger's cat situation.
Nice analysis - and Schroedinger's turtle is a cute image, for some reason. ^.^ (Not counting the nature of the thought experiment.) Could you put a Schroedinger training a squirtle into Reality? (Or would non-SI real person fic be too crossover-y?)
Yeah, Irin does work better for the ff.net one. It's curious, though; pokemon speech doesn't seem like it'd be easily transliterated. Do names that pokemon recieve in the absence of human culture exist as things exactly compatible with the Roman alphabet? Irin seems like she might have had a lot of contact with humans before, if she can speak English fluently; was there only one way to say her name in English, or did she adapt it to the closest word...?
no subject
Date: 2007-06-18 03:52 am (UTC)Well, in a story, you're being presented with a limited amount of information, and dialogue is supposed to have meaning, as are scenes in general. It's somewhat apples and oranges, I suppose. But of the readers ever mentioned Flare's name, not in the long leadup to that scene, not when Lucki is trying to figure out what to call Tryke, not even when I asked them for a name for the evolved manectric.
Could you put a Schroedinger training a squirtle into Reality? (Or would non-SI real person fic be too crossover-y?)
Clever but yes, too self-referential. (Also, the underlying workings of Reality often verge on Shroedinger states)
It's curious, though; pokemon speech doesn't seem like it'd be easily transliterated. Do names that pokemon recieve in the absence of human culture exist as things exactly compatible with the Roman alphabet? Irin seems like she might have had a lot of contact with humans before, if she can speak English fluently; was there only one way to say her name in English, or did she adapt it to the closest word...?
Artistic liberty, I'm afraid. The absol is supposed to be a counterpoint to the rest of the team, so she has a name while they don't and she can express herself without it being translated. She's meant as more or less of a demigod, so she lacks certain restrictions. Her speech is an expression of this, not a sign of earlier experience with humans, although she might have run into them before.
Pokemon names are an especially thorny issue. I've never heard a good way of resolving it. Like most people, I normally prefer to dodge by not naming, using nicknames, or using names assembled from words, where they could be translated. (I avoided mentioning what Saurius' actual name was for similar reasons.) Sometimes authors go with transliterated names, but that seems pretty unwieldy. I remember Dragonfree jumped through hoops to avoid the problem entirely in her story.